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Parasidic Brain Worms .... enducing suicidal behaviour ... infectious ... Memes to die for .... The great fundamental islamic virus ... an information packet with attitude .... toxic ideas .... spreading around the world .... consider the long term implications .... what kind of meme would mutate this Death Meme?
www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/116
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 7:41 PM
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 3:44 PM -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 3:45 PMalso, please note that i focused on reactionary religious authoritarianism among american christians, not muslims.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 5:17 PMA 'look to the future/ forget the past/ prison break' meme would be a good start!
The 'learn to abstract reality and see the same idea from different perspectives' meme is a good one too... It's chemical fomula is similar to LSD!
Each damaging meme has a key that will break it IMO, some are quite complex, others aren't...
I see it as a jigsaw puzzle which we are building, the complete picture is one of harmony and peace.. The corner pieces need to be found.. then the edges.. and then we fill in the middle. Each piece/mem that is found brings us closer to filling in all the gaps and makes the remaining gaps easier to fill in.
As far as Islam is concerned.. Many aspects of it are peaceful, some aspects aren't... as with most ideologies and ideas of power, they can go both ways depending on the person who is interpreting them, their environment/position and general conscious and unconscious intentions. So Islam already contains some parts of the meme that is needed to free and transmute it.
To be honest, on the rawest level, I feel that the 'All things can be filtered through either love or fear' meme is the master meme.
Thankfully we now have a constant injection of new memes coming from all manor of channelled sources.. I am currently reading 'The return of light' which is a crystal channelling of 'Horus' the creator God... All this stuff is revalatory if you take the time to read it.
How to mutate THE 'DEATH' meme? And the 'Sickness' meme?
Focus on the 'ETERNAL LIFE' meme and the 'PERFECT HEALTH' meme!
Peace,
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Nick -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 6:09 PMyour purity betrays you.
perfect health or eternal life or harmony or inner peace or any of these memes that promise an end to suffering are pernicious. you repeat the very error you criticize, albeit on the other sunnier side of the coin.
how about rationality? non-delusion? logic? using the scientific method to weed out subjective bias and magical thinking? these are the memes that counteract the madness, not more madness.
"'The return of light' which is a crystal channelling of 'Horus' the creator God"
come on, nick, stop kidding around with this stuff. the news isn't as bad as it first sounds: there is no inner peace, no spiritual end-state, no perfect contentment, no perfect harmony. these memeplexes promise an end to suffering some day, but it never happens... a good replicative trick, yes?
all we can be is content with non-contentment, and seek pleasure. but nature doesn't care about how happy you are, nick, and it's a lot bigger than you will ever be. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 6:22 PMIt's all about Mutation ....:) -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 7:06 PMYay!! Mutants!!
& hybrids..... :)
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 10:06 PMyes, that's one reason why i believe an important next step will be to have religions that are scientific. all the magic, community, cool places and outfits, singing together... and no delusions. now THAT is a mutation! ; )
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 7:46 AMInsanity is that which the mind does not understand - Nick - 2002
Have you read the book? How do you KNOW there is not harmony to be found that is more in tune with what you would want if you 'could' create whichever level of harmony your preferred?
Please explain how 'freedom' and/or 'health' are pernicious and 'bring about death'.
I will not be limited. As I remove my inner limits the outer world morphs to reflect this, this is MY reality, we are each entitled to our own.
The universe does not takes sides, however, I am the 'all that is' and so too it is me... So I too seek to 'not take sides'... but to acknowledge the presence of the coin all the same! lol
Thanks for the mental workout.
Peace,
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Nick -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 11:00 AM"Insanity is that which the mind does not understand - Nick - 2002 "
quoting yourself like this looks a lot like narcissism, brother. also, some insanity is just plain dysfunction, broken parts, pain, injury, disarray. do not romanticize it. sure, normalcy is crazy, so insanity looks like it might be sane, but alas, it is generally not. it gestures at sanity because it shows the faultlines.
"How do you KNOW there is not harmony to be found that is more in tune with what you would want if you 'could' create whichever level of harmony your preferred? "
believe me nick, i am reaching for happiness and for harmony and love and community. but i do see the difference between ideals and reality. and i also understand the design of nature and how evolution works, and this knowledge makes me skeptical of any purism about an end to struggle. loosely speaking, life is matter that replicates itself, and those that replicate themselves more successfully tend to crowd the others. any living being that was content in a manner which amounted to not being motivated would be selected against. a certain measure of discontent seems to be a vital ingredient of motivation.
"Please explain how 'freedom' and/or 'health' are pernicious and 'bring about death'. "
because they are only pure in the realm of thought.
"I will not be limited. As I remove my inner limits the outer world morphs to reflect this, this is MY reality, we are each entitled to our own. "
yes, you will be limited, but you can work as hard as possible not to impose self-limits. consider how the notion of self-making becomes politics, when worlds collide.
"The universe does not takes sides, however, I am the 'all that is' and so too it is me... So I too seek to 'not take sides'... but to acknowledge the presence of the coin all the same! lol "
this is cute, but ends up amounting to a non-statement. we are all aspects of the apparently continuous energy sea, yet discrete entities nonetheless. self-advocacy in terms of caring for your needs is healthy, insofar as you remain aware of your interdependencies with others' needs.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 12:19 PMFear is the mother meme. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 12:41 PMI know what you meme LOL ...
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:39 PM"Fear is the mother meme."
I guess so.. Without fear there is no terror.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 2:54 PMfear is not a meme actually. it's an emotion. they are not the same.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:24 PM"quoting yourself like this looks a lot like narcissism, brother"
-> Nothing wrong with self-love... I was proud of that one quote .. I appreciate your sentiment though, I may well have said the same thing if I was in your boots at one point. ;)
"some insanity is just plain dysfunction, broken parts, pain, injury, disarray. do not romanticize it."
-> 'dysfunction' is relative.. as is 'broken'.. 'pain', 'injury' and disarray' are not insanity to me... They are what they are. I was not intending to romanticise anything, simply to point out that I believe that all insanity can be cured and de-constructed given the right insight and motivations.
"normalcy is crazy"
-> To me 'normal' doesn't exist as much as insanity/sanity doesn't really exist... 'Normal' is something that changes every second... Since we think of normal as being a kind of 'average' across the population.. and the population is entirely dynamic any type of assessment of measurement of what is 'normal' is inaccurate by default. This is amusingly in line with the discoveries of quantum mechanics.
"I also understand the design of nature and how evolution works, and this knowledge makes me skeptical of any purism about an end to struggle."
-> I think you are in good company, most people, including myself, find it hard to really believe that an end to struggle is possible.. However, every direction I point myself in attempting to learn about what we call 'reality' and 'the future' has shown me that we ARE about to pretty much end the stuff we don't want or find of use to our education any longer.
"loosely speaking, life is matter that replicates itself, and those that replicate themselves more successfully tend to crowd the others."
-> What came before matter? Consciousness perhaps? How do I replicate myself in 3D? Do you have cloning technology available where you are? It would be helpful because I am painting a room at the moment and at the same time trying to write a book, read 20 books and launch more than one company.. I could surely use the help! I guess I'll have to stick to good old fashioned 'teamwork' and 'friendship' to get the help I need... Oh well.. ;)
If we take your logic and apply it to ideas instead of people then your are kind of saying 'he who shouts loudest wins'.. Which is kind of true a lot of time.. 'The winners write the history books'.. The key is to emlinate the need for competition in the first place... and even the need for history books! The idea of the 'survival of the fittest' is an unpleasant and misguided one.. The 'Fat cat' bloodlines have survived pretty well for a long time and yet they are 'fat'... 'Survival of the fattest' makes more sense accoarding to modern history. Fortunately I believe the universe has certain in-built 'valves' and systems that take that pressure out and rebalance things every now and again... Can you say '2012'?
"any living being that was content in a manner which amounted to not being motivated would be selected against. a certain measure of discontent seems to be a vital ingredient of motivation. "
-> I agree that this is the traditional view... Take the native americans for example..*Sarcasm ON* They were so 'lazy' they got their asses wipped by the 'superior' cowboys.. Guess a close relationship to mother Earth was of no value after all... *Sarcasm OFF* .. OH, what's that? the cowboys built the factories and the financial systems that have virtually destroyed Mother Earth? Oh yeah... Perhaps evolution is about to reverse.
"because they are only pure in the realm of thought. "
-> That baffles me... (a) Health is NOT only pure in the realm of thought.. (b) i still don't understand how the word 'freedom' and the word 'health' promote 'death'.
"yes, you will be limited, but you can work as hard as possible not to impose self-limits. consider how the notion of self-making becomes politics, when worlds collide. "
-> I am not talking about 'self-making' or politics.. I perceive myself to be a part of a human collective, I do not need to 'collide' with anything at all, if all else fails the art of 'running away' always comes in handy and I do not perceive that as a limit.
At t'end of t'day it's all about giving as much as possible.. including to yourself... removal of perceived limits results in abundance.
It is difficult to define 'good' music but easy to define 'bad' music. Remove the bad music to improve the masterpiece.
Woah, I think I am buzzing from this ceiling sealant!
Once again, I thankyou for the discussion.
Peace,
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Nick -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 3:08 PM"Nothing wrong with self-love.."
it was the providing of the year that pushed it over the edge really! no biggie, nickmaster flex!
"'dysfunction' is relative.. as is 'broken'.. 'pain', 'injury' and disarray' are not insanity to me... They are what they are. I was not intending to romanticise anything, simply to point out that I believe that all insanity can be cured and de-constructed given the right insight and motivations."
i'm afraid you are incorrect here, though i wish you were right. mental disorders are of a different ilk, but of course you wouldn't say someone with a broken arm's trouble was relative, or a matter of attitude. our sense of being conscious willing agents doesn't like the idea that we are sometimes simply objects in a situation, and that traumas, either singular large ones or smaller ongoing or in between, along with our genes or other exposures, leave a mark. we are not in control as much as you desire to believe. unfortunately, the evidence from psychology is that one learns to better manage one's neurosis and rarely if ever drops it completely, and other disorders that are more severe are quite resistant to cognitive-behavioral therapy. also, note that many psychological problems do show evidence of having a genetic basis.
"However, every direction I point myself in attempting to learn about what we call 'reality' and 'the future' has shown me that we ARE about to pretty much end the stuff we don't want or find of use to our education any longer."
certainly if you follow robert wright's thinking along with francis futuyama, one gets the sense that evolution itself is likely to progress toward complexity, intelligence, and even greater morality. then again, we could have a total system crash and start over. i don't think there is a purpose to anything outside of human values, nor an intended direction or endpoint. i ask that you please reconsider the root of this fantasy. you really haven't said anything to counter my statement except that you disagree.
"What came before matter? Consciousness perhaps? How do I replicate myself in 3D? Do you have cloning technology available where you are? It would be helpful because I am painting a room at the moment and at the same time trying to write a book, read 20 books and launch more than one company.. I could surely use the help! I guess I'll have to stick to good old fashioned 'teamwork' and 'friendship' to get the help I need... Oh well.. ;)
If we take your logic and apply it to ideas instead of people then your are kind of saying 'he who shouts loudest wins'.. Which is kind of true a lot of time.. 'The winners write the history books'.. The key is to emlinate the need for competition in the first place... and even the need for history books! The idea of the 'survival of the fittest' is an unpleasant and misguided one.. The 'Fat cat' bloodlines have survived pretty well for a long time and yet they are 'fat'... 'Survival of the fattest' makes more sense accoarding to modern history. Fortunately I believe the universe has certain in-built 'valves' and systems that take that pressure out and rebalance things every now and again... Can you say '2012'? "
the degree of your delusions is actually quite severe and concerns me. you have caught a number of memetic viruses here, including the embarrassing mayan 2012 horseshit. consciousness evolved quite recently along with brains, nick, it does not exist outside of brains, and your projection of your own being into the universe is another example of narcissism. you must be more careful!
most importantly, we all need memetic filters that help us from catching a virus that goes against out own well-being. delusions are rarely adaptive, especially in the long run. if i were you, i would read more evolutionary biology and get down to earth. there's plenty of magic and mystery in the everyday; we needn't invent mystical realms or prophecies.
i do appreciate your warmth and openness and apologize for my straight talk. i am trying to offer what i have to offer.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 3:13 PM
Our perception of the world is a reflection of our state of consciousness. We are not separate from it and there is not an objective world out there. Every moment, our consciousness creates the world we inhabit. There is no separation. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:51 PMsunshine, are you a member of the landmark forum?
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 4:29 PMI have a friend who is training to be a doctor of psychology who is being driven mad.
He is being driven mad, in part, by the deluded beliefs of psychologists who try to heal the mind when they don't actually understand it from more than one angle and will happily tell you that they don't understand it, while at the same time acting as if they do! Madness I tells you! Doctors 'practise' because they are not fully 'learned' on the subject.
Hundreds of years ago mental illness was cured by drilling a hole into people's heads, at the time it was considered 'cutting edge'.
IMO Humanity is heading towards an age of 'ethics' having left behind an age of 'power'.. It is difficult enough to survive in a word where nuclear weapons exist on the national level... to live in a world where individuals have exceptional levels of 'power' (compared to our current levels) requires exceptional ethics (by our current levels). The only reason that the masses do not already have exceptional power is that they are squished by those who would usurp them on a global level. I do not believe there is an intended direction and definitely not an endpoint.. I do, however, believe that in order to progress beyond a certain point, humanity must develop it's benevolent gland! It's ethica compass, so to speak.. All else leads to distruction, as we are seeing.
"the degree of your delusions is actually quite severe and concerns me."
-> I am warmed by your concerns but I asure you that it is not needed. As I said earlier, we EACH CREATE OUR OWN REALITY, can you refute that in any way? Since it is fair to say that just about any thought that can be transferred between people can be considered a meme, how is it possible to NOT contract a memetic virus? I would have to enter a waking zen state at all times and be perfect in that moment forever. As for 2012 being horseshit.. .Well, we will have to wait and see.. How much have you researched the topic?
"consciousness evolved quite recently along with brains"
-> Well, the entire hindu religion would care to disagree with you I think... Answer me this: What came before the big bang?
"your projection of your own being into the universe is another example of narcissism"
-> Can you explain this a little please? thanks.
"we all need memetic filters that help us from catching a virus that goes against out own well-being"
-> I appreciate your outlook, but again, I re-iterate, we create our own reality... My well-being is MY well-being, I am quite capable of directing my own movie.
"there's plenty of magic and mystery in the everyday; we needn't invent mystical realms or prophecies. "
-> I quite agree, one man's 'mystical realms' are another man's everyday. Prophecies are interspersed through the entirity of history. Just as you ask me to investigate biology, I ask you to investigate prophecy. The Hopi prophecies and St. Malachi's Prophecy of the pope prosessions are just two that spring to mind.
No need to apologise for straight talk, it is precisely what the world needs.
Nostrovia
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Nick
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:50 PMi was myself involved in anti-psychiatry and the politics of mental illness for a very long time. my field of training is psychology. i am no fan of McHealth or big pharma, much of the time. but your position is too black and white. humans can be mentally disordered, and sometimes it's not about politics or spirituality. period. trauma, abuse, genes... these things are not all historically specific. it disrespects people's real suffering to make mental disorders into a form of symbolism for rebellion. we must be careful.
"As I said earlier, we EACH CREATE OUR OWN REALITY, can you refute that in any way?"
i thought i had. well, okay, if we create our own reality, what happens when we bump into someone else's reality? whose version wins? there is no way out of this challenge, nick, because we don't just make out own realities. you're over-identifying yourself with the rest of the world. also, there are logical consequences to the belief that we are responsible for our own realities that are troubling: did the jews manifest the holocaust?
"how is it possible to NOT contract a memetic virus?"
you need an antibiotic regimen, a method for scanning whether acquired memes are harmful to your well-being. keith stanovich outlines a self-protection scheme that is quite specific and careful in his book "the robot's rebellion." i highly recommend it.
"Well, the entire hindu religion would care to disagree with you I think... Answer me this: What came before the big bang? "
how popular a belief is does not determine whether it is accurate, as you yourself have argued strongly here. if you really believe that consciousness preceded matter or is inside everything, you need to start with defining consciousness, and then providing the reasons you assert these claims. i have no problem talking it over with you, and will change my mind at the drop of a hat if you convince me.
cosmologists are still trying to figure out what happened, if anything, before the big bang (most will tell you spacetime did not exist, so the question is meaningless). i would bet on their hard work over your quick spiritual answers any day of the week. they have methods for figuring out what is true and what is just an opinion or bias, and you are in need of such methods!
"As for 2012 being horseshit.. .Well, we will have to wait and see.. How much have you researched the topic? "
i have no interest in apocalypse myths. just please don't do anything to help your prophecy be fulfilled, ok? prophecies are unlikely to be true for the simple fact that the number of determinist vectors involved in creating a macro event is beyond any brain's capacity to track for very long into the future -- and that's even IF you had access to all the information, which we don't AT ALL.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:05 PM*pats blue-j on the back*
Valiant effort, my friend, but most people are SO attached to their memes no amount of logic works. Can't fault you for trying, tho. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:30 PM"Valiant effort, my friend, but most people are SO attached to their memes no amount of logic works. Can't fault you for trying, tho."
thanks. we all need to help each other with this. the memes that are most prone to successful infestation are those that promise pure and marvelous things in the future, always a little out of reach, and that you are one of the special ones on the path to this pure and marvelous future. it is certainly compelling, because the future is going to happen, and i want it to be marvelous, and i want to be one of the people that's there when it gets cooler. heaven, nirvana, jannah, loka, rapture, the final fix, the reckoning, the apocalypse that separates the goodies from the baddies, on and on.
the problem is when our romantic notions are a dimension of emotional denial, and as we look ever to the future, we ignore the facts and tangible realities of the present. being really present seems very difficult to do for most people, including me. blackmore believes that meditation is hard because memes are vying for space in the competitive landscape of our neocortex. she may be right. but i think there's a deeper answer, and that is we are all in quite a bit of discomfort with modern living, as well as have fairly substantial wounds to heal from our pasts. it's just not comfortable to sit with that stuff, so we invent pixie dust and magic pills and utopic futures to give ourselves comfort. there are better options! -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 10:47 PM"cutting edge"
<giggle>
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 8:25 AMYour passion for humanity & our potential is commendable. Generally, I feel the same way inre: wanting the future to be marvelous. & how truly "marvelous" it could be. Unfortunately, I cannot share your optimism for an enlightenment. I find trying to get thru to individuals is a lost cause. Visions are more readily accepted when you can appeal to a group, so they can be reassured that this the "correct" way to think; & no one wants their security blanket taken away. Such is life.
I respectfully disagree that we are "all" uncomfortable with modern living. Many people are perfectly content to have their opinions & behaviors spoon-fed to them. They don't know any better. There are no revolutions on the horizon. It's just human nature to find & invent things to bitch about. I really can't speak with authentic authority on this matter, but it would appear to stem from a subconscious need to return to the instant gratifications of the womb. Or at least that is surely how most people act. So we invent religion 'a' & excuse 'y' to explain the things we don't (or that some of us *won't*, such as evolution) understand, & to make ourselves feel better for falling short of oft unattainable ideals. Ignorance is a choice. The facts are all there, available to anyone who feels the slightest inclination towards knowledge.
I'm not trying to suggest that we should all just be nihilists & resort to utter anarchy & blah blah. That's too far to the extreme left even for me. All I'm saying that the state of things is completely natural, every bit of it, & there is no denying our animal nature. I'm glad there are others, like yourself, who still feel inspired enough to continue "fighting the good fight." Not that I have no hope for the future; I'm fond of imagining that some day we'll get our shit together & actually start living up to our full potential. But evolution of neither memes nor genes favors intelligence in particular; all you have to do is survive long enough to propagate. & from that perspective, it looks as tho everything is in order. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 8:28 AMI'm an anarchist & can tell you that it's utter *bliss* ~ don't believe those terror lies about it!
love all-ways (especially the extreme ways!),
mem -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 9:19 AMI agree that anarchy is definitely good for temperance. But it's easy to subscribe to such philosophies when there is a government to fall back on. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 10:56 AMBut it's easy to subscribe to such philosophies when there is a government to fall back on.
~~~~~~~~
what 'government" ~ do you see a 'government'? I don't!
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 5:46 PM*shrug* As you like. It's quite indisputable that we are being governed, but whatev. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 10:27 PMIt's quite indisputable that we are being governed
~~~~~~~
I understand that you are speaking for yourself ~
I, for one, dispute being 'governed' by anyone who hasn't earned that position in a way that I can respect & I dispute your inclusion of me, in particular, with your use of the word "we"
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 5:54 PManarchy is best in its critiques of power, worst in its ideas for alternatives. i really like peter singer's "a darwinian left" for keeping us honest about human nature and that fact that hierarchic power appears to be an unavoidable facet of relations. we can do a hell of a lot better though, and can work to minimize its harm! and mem, i like your sparkly wink. anarchists do know how to have fun.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 5:34 AMOK, the smoke is clearing.
"Humans can be mentally disordered".. Yes, I agree, I am simply saying that 'insanity' is too generalised a word... it is IMO the psychological equivalent of racism (i.e. unneccesary and innacurate grouping.. Strangely, also too 'black and white').
Your position completely dis-regards all phenomena that are outside of that which science has set the time aside to observe and record (That we know about). The human body can only perceive less than 10% of the energy systems that are at play around us and only uses a small percentage of its 'brain'... there is a relationship in those numbers that is not meaningless IMO.
Going back to mental 'disorder'.. There is a lot of talk in the UK at the moment about the misbehaviour that is attributed to smoking strong cannabis... The results of which are occasionally unpleasant. It is my assertion that Cannabis (even strong cannabis) doesn't 'make someone schizophrenic', it simply allows the person to temporarily remove the 'fence' that is present in our minds (as we operate within the beta frequency range) and to observe reality in a way which is 'closer' to 'the truth'.. For many people this is too much to handle, particularly since the resulting observation is often that 'everyone else is blind to the truth' and that 'the entire system is f**ked')... This is a large weight to carry without assistance and external validation.
Schizophrenia is a key case in point actually... How can a doctor define someone as schizophrenic when it has been proved that the drugs that are issued for such cases actually CREATES schizophrenia in 50% of the people who take it (who were mis-diagnosed and who didn't have schizophrenia before!! WTF?).. This to me is a massive slap in the face for the followers of traditional western thought regarding the mind.. Or more specifically for those who believe what they are taught in med schools at the very least.
"if we create our own reality, what happens when we bump into someone else's reality? whose version wins?"
-> Here is the clincher, yes, I agree.. However, there are numerous explanations for this.. They all, however, require that you do one thing. That is, essentially... Accept that the universe has a consciousness of it's own... and that the Sub-atomic particle system of which we are a part is in essence closer to a 'dream' that in it is to a limited, finite 'reality' that we are brought up to believe. If you are open to any of thse ideas then we can continue the debate. :)
"there are logical consequences to the belief that we are responsible for our own realities that are troubling: did the jews manifest the holocaust? "
-> It's funny you mention that example.. Or perhaps 'funny' is completely the wrong word... 'Telling' is perhaps a better word. There is much evidence that the holocaust was instigated at the highest levels by those of Jewish origin. Partly to agitate the Jewish people sufficiently that the normally peaceful Jews would be more open to the intigation of Israel through forceful means. It is a complicated subject and takes days to wade through the evidence sufficiently to back up any claim either way. I will say this though... If you can suspend your dis-belief long enough to watch a couple of 'way out' videos then you will at least see a different perspective on Hitler ENTIRELY..
video.google.com/videoplay (Part 1)
video.google.com/videoplay (Part 2)
Parts 3 + 4 are present on Google video too.. I think Part 2 talks mostly about hitler but I seriously recommend you watch part 1 too as it is all a bit crazy unless you at least appreciate the background to what is being said.
On a more 'normal' level... The Bankers who funded Hitler were Jewish, see my profile for the money related videos for more on this.
""how is it possible to NOT contract a memetic virus?" "
-> Sorry, I should have been clearer here.. What I meant was 'Since just about everything beyond emotion is a memetic virus there IS NO WAY TO NOT CONTRACT one... unless I stop thinking entirely'... Which is perhaps the aim of Zen and may well be a path to enlightenment.. So you may well be onto something, although perhaps not in the way you meant.
In any case I will locate 'the robot's rebellion' I believe it is number 25 in the list of books I have to read *Cries silently*..
As far as consciousness preceeding form is concerned.. There are a number of books I have read which allow this realisation to manifest.. None of them are hindu.. One which springs to mind is 'The ancient secret of the flower of life' (a link for which is in the left column of my profile). Function preceeds form. "We are not humans having a spiritual experience, we are spirits having a human experience" is a famous quote which leaps from me.
"i have no interest in apocalypse myths"
-> Fair enough. But your lack of investigation once again belies your position. Watch Michael Tsarion's video 2012 (again in my profile) to gain an alternative perspective. Our traditional education teaches us through the reinforcement of fear based perspectives that 'apocalypse' = bad. 'The end of time' = bad. There is, as always, another option. 'The end of time' = No more time... No more delay... It does not mean the end of 'life' or the end of 'humans'. Does time really exist? Or do we agree that it exists and cling to that notion as much as possible?
Prophecy is a message/perspective from beyond/outside space/time by someone who has acheived the necesarry peacefulness to make that connection. Prophecies are not set in stone and always accurate, they are a 'sensing' of the future based on the present.
Phew.. this is why I am writing a book! lol
Check out this link before you watch any videos (I've linked you to about 10 hours of video here... lol)
people.tribe.net/captainsw...8cf4894e1f
Its a blog from today that seems very relevant.. The quotes in the comments at the bottom are very nice..
Many thanks again for this 'co-creation', it serves us both and the whole of humanity to have this and every other discussion of important topics.
Peace,
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Nick
people.tribe.net/captainsw...8cf4894e1f
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 11:15 AMIt just occured to me:
Something that prevents people from moving beyond terrorism is 'Not letting go of the past'
It is this behaviour which often promotes 'grouping' in the first place.
Racist groups that believe they are the 'chosen' or 'rightful' people to own a peace of land and so on, do so, more often than not because they are living in the memories of themselves and of their parents and so on...
These wounds are left gaping and need to be healed.
This is not to say that people should forget the past, but they should learn to move beyond it and not be 'trapped' by it. The past is hard to prove... The 'now' is easy is to prove and always will be .... Which is why it is perferable (to me at least).
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 11:50 AMAs if on cue I came across this video:
video.google.com/videoplay
Demonstrating nicely the insanity of 'secret groups' and even 'open groups'..
Celebrate open individuality.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 5:50 PM"it simply allows the person to temporarily remove the 'fence' that is present in our minds (as we operate within the beta frequency range) and to observe reality in a way which is 'closer' to 'the truth'"
the unconscious evolved for reasons of distributing priorities with our limited neural energy budget. the fences are there for reasons. however, those reasons are more relevant to the extremes of the EEA than modern life. one must be careful about herb though, brother. it can have an insidious subtly negative effect. lethargy, paranoia, and YES it is addictive a bit. easy does it.
also, i am no big fan of pharma, but pointing out that anti-psychotics cause troubles does not equate to the idea that schizophrenia is some misunderstood spiritual breakthrough. misread some of r.d. laing's works from his acid days and never actually hang out with schizophrenics and you'd get the impression that schizophrenia is an eye-opening trip, when in fact it is a deeply disabling and painful condition. also, if you bother to actually read science, you will find that so much has been learned about the etiology of schizophrenia, and what particular neurological problems comprise it.
"However, there are numerous explanations for this.. They all, however, require that you do one thing. That is, essentially... Accept that the universe has a consciousness of it's own... and that the Sub-atomic particle system of which we are a part is in essence closer to a 'dream' that in it is to a limited, finite 'reality' that we are brought up to believe. If you are open to any of thse ideas then we can continue the debate. :) "
another explanation for this if that the basic premise is wrong, nick. that our minds and perceptual apparatuses interact with external stimuli to manifest our experience, but that we all share a common ground of stimuli. mistaking your inner subjective experience for something that exists outside of you is a form of dissociation indicative of mental discomfort. you posit that the universe has a consciousness as if saying it makes it true, but we must have a way to distinguish from things anyone can say (a purple squirrel rules the universe from your ass) from something that might actually be true. you need a more rigorous set of tools to make these distinctions. i recommend the scientific method for starters.
"the holocaust was instigated at the highest levels by those of Jewish origin."
fuck you, shit-for-brains. maybe slow down on the drugs and the marginal literature and try to sharpen your critical thinking skills.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 6:39 PMI no longer smoke weed, having identified the precise negative effects you mentioned.. .Anything we try to block out through drugs remains until we stop using them and yes, I was using them to block stuff out. They are effective in demonstrating to the mind that 'something' exists beyond the beta state though. I believe breathing and meditation is the way to go though if you can.
We are reaching the point where science is able to measure the quoted view of reality, Quantum studies that are mentioned in the slightly OTT movie 'What the bleep do we know 2: Down the rabbit hole' reiterate this. The reason that I state that the universe has a consciosness is that I have witnessed and sensed this in action personally, I appreciate that not everyone has and will agree with me, I apologise if you felt that I was trying to force the belief on you.
"fuck you, shit-for-brains." -> Charming, is this what 'critical thinking' brings? It seems so.
For the record I have spent more time studying WW2 politics an background than most other topics in my life. I cannot say for 100% certain that this assertion is true because I was not physically present at the time. However, I suggest you research the underyling financial structures and individuals that were in place at the time and indeed those that are still in place. Who supported both sides financially in WW2? Where did the money come from? Go research it.
Marginal = From the fringe or 'small'... Since we do not live in a perfect world and since the majority are somewhat 'asleep at the wheel' I do not have a problem with studying away from the mainstream.. The very definition of 'revolutionary' is 'not normal' wouldn't you agree?
The greatest resonance occurs when striking away from the center of the 'bell curve'.
I see that you have not observed any of the links I have suggested so I bid you good day. My energy will be directed elsewhere. In-joy.
Peace,
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Nick -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 6:53 PMOne last thing..
The universe just delivered this to me.. Just as I hit send on the last message:
video.google.com/videoplay
(Part 1)
Haven't watched it all yet, I suggest you do though because its on the exact topic we are disputing. :)))
Peace
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 10:08 AM"The reason that I state that the universe has a consciosness is that I have witnessed and sensed this in action personally,"
how can you tell it just wasn't a projection of your own malignant narcissism?
"Where did the money come from?"
why you remain appalling for saying this is that even if some jewish people were financiers of the third reich says nothing about the will of the millions tortured and killed and, as i am seeing, doesn't even follow the logic of my point. let's spell out the argument and see if you are capable of logic:
1) if everyone were responsible for their own realities, you need to explain how differences are resolved. i fail to see your premise surviving via the notion that the universe itself has consciousness
2) if everyone were responsible for their own realities, you need to explain atrocities as somehow willed or manifested by the victims themselves. not by other of the same group or whatever latest conspiracy theory you've come across on youtube. but the victims themselves.
good luck. also, i recommend actually studying quantum mechanics, rather than the appropriation found in "what the bleep" and the ramtha scheisters. the notion that consciousness is required and must be everpresent is NOT supported by the vast majority of physicists, and the relevance of quantum phenomena to macro experience is nowhere near what the movie and landmark and ramtha claim. science is about not caring what the answer turns out to be enough that you actually are open to truth.
acting shocked for getting some "negative vibes" over saying the jews brought the holocaust on themselves is beyond gauche, nick.
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 10:10 AM"The greatest resonance occurs when striking away from the center of the 'bell curve'."
this is a common line of thinking in adolescence. the truth is the truth, whether marginal or not. it's not a relevant variable. it's like someone who will only listen to music that is unpopular and unknown by most people, as a policy. it's not rebellion, because you're as managed by the norms as the "normals."
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:18 PMa big thank you to sunshine for draing everyone's attention to dennett's talk at TED. all his talks there are interesting, for sure. the best online dennett video i know of is from the absolutely marvelous site:
meaningoflife.tv
this site may take hours of your life, but give years in return...! ; ) -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 5:42 AMThankyou, I will observe the content..
The homepage contains much speculation as to the nature of God, which amuses me since I am reading a collection of books which claim to be the 'voice of God' being channelled through humans...
Modern equivalents to the holy books of old..
It seems strange to listen to speculation when one can listen directly to the source...
And please don't comment on this unless you have actually taken the time to read the books.
I should point out that I am 29 years old and for 28.5 of those years I had no belief in spirituality or God whatsoever. Certain occurances in 3D have forced me to re-assess that perspective. It seems that we only have to open up to the possibility a little for it to be re-enforced a whole lot.. It is however, often a personal experience that is difficult to be convinced of without personal journeying. -
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Re: Terrorism and Memes
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 9:38 AMPeace and Blessings ....
-> Sorry, I should have been clearer here.. What I meant was 'Since just about everything beyond emotion is a memetic virus there IS NO WAY TO NOT CONTRACT one...
Notice the memes .... conversations .... that you have .... A*W*A*R*E*N*E*S*S ...
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